Talk:GuildWars Visions
Spam? --Myrrinth 10:15, 27 December 2006 (CST) This appears to be an advertisement for some third-party GW utility. It smells like spam; at best it's an unpaid ad and at worst it could be a phishing scheme or promoting a keylogger or other trojan. It sure shouldn't be here, though. I'm not touching that external link with a ten-foot pole, much less downloading or installing anything. I notice that Skuld was quick to add a del tag to it, which it needed... but the tag was removed by the original contributor within minutes. I'm reverting to Skuld's revision and hoping for a hasty deletion. — HarshLanguage 06:55, 27 December 2006 (CST) :Umm, skuld slapped this with a delete tag then an anon removed it, even though the delete tag said discuss first. What is going on with this article? Xeon 06:57, 27 December 2006 (CST) ::Definitely not okay to include a download link in there. I support delete. - [[User:Bexor|'BeXoR']] 07:14, 27 December 2006 (CST) :::I have removed the link from the article until it gets deleted as it probably contains a trojan or keylogger or something equally nasty like that. --''Lemming64'' 07:15, 27 December 2006 (CST) I'll let someone else look at it, good idea removing the link tho >.< — Skuld ::::This needs to go. It does not provide any useful information, definetly does not meet Wiki standards, and if the program does exist it would be a violation of the GW TOS to use it (I'm pretty sure). --Myrrinth 10:15, 27 December 2006 (CST) : I've downloaded the program at work (yes, I know, it's BAD! ;) ).. Very Up-To-Date Norton didn't find anything.. I ran the program and yes, it's in german, but I can clearly see maps, collectors (what they want), bosses (with some infos, like elite skill and green dropped).. I must try again with personal software firewall to be sure that there is nothing more (and no, can't get GW running on my work's network, can't bypass the proxy, port closed).. Corsaire 10:22, 27 December 2006 (CST) ::Yea, this is not what we want ppl to find here on the wiki... forums can be used to advertise programs... the wiki on the other hand... no, not unless it becomes something widespread and well known (like Edge, even tho i'd still prefer that not to be advertised here). The wiki is here to give info on the game itself... not everything attached to the game... If your going to start making articles on semi related stuff where are the articles on the more well known guilds??? That would be more relevant than this, also where would we stop? --Midnight08 10:32, 27 December 2006 (CST) Guys, see Category:Software. Especilly the articles The Edge, GWFreaks and other similiar pages. Shouldn't this be allowed too as those program articles were allowed after a huge discussion. -- (talk) 10:36, 27 December 2006 (CST) :If it was discussed and allowed then cool as long as the article is kept up to standards and the program is legit. Tho i would still prefer only the more well known programs being listed. Anyone speak german who could play with it a bit and see how good it is? --Midnight08 10:45, 27 December 2006 (CST) ::The question on keeping this is, as a tool, does it provide useful in-game guidance to the wiki users, and is it free of trojans, spyware, etc. As it's written in German, that very much restricts its usefulness to an english-centric wiki community - other tools can provide comparable content and are either natively english, or have english translations available. ::If it's kept, which I'm not convinced it should be kept, but if it is; then it should be cleaned up to remove the advertisement-speech, converting it to a bare-bones factual content article like other tool-reference articles, and the Template:Third party software tag should be applied to it. --- Barek (talk • ) - 11:29, 27 December 2006 (CST) :::Umm...Boss locations, collector info, green items and info on missions? How does this provide for people in a way that the wiki itself doesn't? The Edge and GWFreaks provide functionality that you can't get just browsing the wiki. I don't speak German, so I think someone should check it out and see if it has any additional merit. But, as it is now, I don't see why anyone who is already on the wiki would need to bother with downloading an application to get the same info. --Wil 11:37, 27 December 2006 (CST) ::::I pretty much agree - I don't think it should be kept; but I did take a pass at cleaning up the contents to a wiki formatting comparable to the other tools - just in case it's decided to keep it. --- Barek (talk • ) - 11:39, 27 December 2006 (CST) ::::Heh, i thought the same thing, why bother linking to it, considering all the information it provides, the wiki provides while most likely being more complete. Xeon 12:04, 27 December 2006 (CST) :::::You are all right, this tool provides nothing new and helpfull. -- (talk) 13:56, 27 December 2006 (CST) ::hi guys. I was the guy that posted this article. and my english isn't very well, but this is NO advertising. this program is used from a lot of germans and also this germans are looking here at this site. this program isquite useful and other as gw-freaks or other programs and it's still up to date. It's an project from one of the greatest german fansites. and the german coordinator for Guild Wars posted in a lot of german forums that this program will be no voilence against the GW TOS because there is no connections to the gw-client or server or hack game files or something else. also was about this program a article at the offical site of gw. so you can be sure that this program is legal and free of spyware trojans at this link i posted. ::sorry for posting in the wrong format but i'm not so skilled to make new articles. so thanks for modding but some informations about it are gone. And if TS, Ventrilo, GW-Freaks and all the other programs are listed here so why not GW-Visions? thats its forbidden to post links here i don't know so this will also not happen again. Onkel Uhu 02:32AM GMT 28 Dez 06 :::Teamspeak, Ventrilo etc don't have an article in the wiki, they are just redirects to the voice chat article. :::Was this really featured on the GW website? Okay. Someone plese check the program and tell if it's okay to have an article of it. Also please someone reformat the article accordingly if we decide to keep this. -- (talk) 19:51, 27 December 2006 (CST) :::: Finally home to test it some (gotta love the 2 job days), dont speak a lick of german but knowledgeable enough to try trial and error... so far it looks pretty nice... I might even use it despite the language issues... the maps are extremely detailed (Drop, Elite)with clickable icons for bosses (with detailed info) as well as collectors and such... looks like its hosted and was showcased on an elite german fansite... Would be more helpful with multi language support... but besides that a nice tool that i want in english now=) It may not have all the data the wiki does, but it makes it easier to get some of it.--Midnight08 23:08, 27 December 2006 (CST) ::if i had to compare i'd say its similar in its presentation to GWFreaks or The Edge. As such i dont see too much issue with this having an equivalent page as long as its confirms to the same standards. --Midnight08 23:12, 27 December 2006 (CST) :::it was featured. i don't know when but i was. and for all of you, the same discussion was at the german fasites. :-) nobody want to believe that such a program is legal because the quality is higher than at other programs. you have a a search tool to find all stuff of equiment. so i think visions has a place here in guildwiki ;-) onkel uhu 14:13 GMT 28 Dez 06 ::::Dont want to believe its legal.... quality higher then others.... thats not what we are discussing here. Personally i would not even bother downloading it, all the information is on the wiki, updated more and has more people behind it. -- Xeon 07:16, 28 December 2006 (CST) ::::(This program should have more chance to stay here if an option to switch to english were present..) Corsaire 07:33, 28 December 2006 (CST) ::::yes it's right all informationas are also here on wiki, but it's still easier to get this informations with visions. sorry i know it sounds like advertising, but it's the better way, no lists, no 100 pages to find some items or elite-skills. and thats the reason why this program should stay here. and maybe a other user with better english and german can add inforamtions about that program so that everybody see thats this is no spam or advertising. Onkel Uhu 18:17 GMT 28.Dez 06 :::::Just a two second reply. GWwiki has a search button :D The wiki does not have 100 pages to find an item. -- Xeon 11:16, 28 December 2006 (CST) :The quality of the software content isn't the issue here. It is not something we have to assess, let alone vouch for if we list the software on this wiki. This whole discussion should solely be about two questions: :1) Is it legal? (No violation of User Agreement or Terms of Use?) :2) Is it safe? (No virus, adware, trojans, keyloggers, ...?) :Personally I believe that in the case of GW Visions the answer to both these questions is Yes. It's safe and legal. So I don't see any reason why GW Visions shouldn't be listed if other 3rd party software like The Edge is listed. :Please note that the download is hosted on an Official Elite Fansite. I trust that they vouch for the safety and legality of the download, and even the quality too. :Having said that, I think we should reconsider whether we want to allow any articles about 3rd party software at all on GuildWiki. For me, this decission is pretty much the same as the decision about individual articles for Fansites or Guilds. And in both cases we decided against it. -- 14:00, 28 December 2006 (CST) :::Hello, I'm the author of GuildWars Visions. I want to say some words concerning the above questions. :::1. Is it legal? Yes. It is officially named and announced at the official german guildwars site (go there and search for "visions"). :::2. Is it safe? Why would you believe me if I say "yes"? So here are some facts that support a "yes": Visions was first released more than 6 months ago, has been downloaded more than 100,000 times and nobody yet complained about a virus, keylogger or something like that. Also (as already said), Visions is hosted at an elite fansite and was announced at least twice at the official german guildwars site. :::Visions also was never meant to be a wiki replacement, it's just for those who like the visions presentation more than the wiki presentation. :::Reading this discussion here I don't see many reasons to work on a translated version. Since you guys seem to like wiki much more than the idea of Visions, It wouldn't be worth the (infact large) effort. Always funny to see the community differences: When Visions was released first in June 2006, the comments have not been "most likely it's a keylogger" but "great tool!!". Infact, expecting comments like these has always lowered my ambition to make it multilingual. :::(Thanks to Midnight08 for bringing this to my attention.) :::Luzzifus 14:58, 28 December 2006 (CST) ::::Anytime man - (I still wouldnt mind an english version of that program... maybe check the GWOnline or GWGuru forums for interest there?, these Wikians can be silly sometimes =) )--Midnight08 15:11, 28 December 2006 (CST) :::::Luzzifus, don't take it too seriously that one or two or three users here at wiki are asking if it's legal or safe. The reason is that the wiki is really carefull about it's reputation and the policies/decisions for these kinds of articles aren't ready. Earlier there was a huge discussion about allowing fansite and guild articles, which were then disallowed. Then there was a huge discussion/debate about third party software articles, which were then allowed, as long as the articles keep with a neutral point of view and don't act as an advertisement. I'm sure that the tool is great and many non-germanspeaking users would love to have it in english. A translation would be great and would probably multiply your amount of users, especially as we seem to have allowed this article to stay in the wiki. -- (talk) 16:10, 28 December 2006 (CST) Other third party programs Why are you all down on this program and are okay with putting ads for the edge, gw freaks etc on guildwiki?--TheDrifter 17:10, 28 December 2006 (CST) :Read the section above ^ -- Xeon 17:12, 28 December 2006 (CST) ::If I understood correctly, we accepted this article. :DD -- (talk) 19:08, 28 December 2006 (CST) :::I didn't even realise this discussion was still going. The delete tag was removed very early this morning, yet still more posts here today. At this point, I think the question has grown beyond this one article to include if we should include any article of this type (I say keep them, unless guildwars.com one day develops a list we can link into - which I doubt will happen); but that discussion probably shouldn't be here. --- Barek (talk • ) - 19:10, 28 December 2006 (CST) ::::That general discussion was allready held a long time ago and these articles were allowed. The discussion was merely about this single tool, if it's good enough to be presented. The populations seemed to accept this. Case closed. -- (talk) 19:19, 28 December 2006 (CST) :::::It was also once decided that no builds should be in the wiki, but that case was re-openned - with conflicting views as to its success. But I digress - the point being, community opinions can change. ;-) Still, like I said, unless there's an external link that we can use that lists these types of programs, then I feel we should keep our own lists. I would prefer not, but I don't see a way around it. --- Barek (talk • ) - 19:23, 28 December 2006 (CST) ::::::No one here had anything against these articles in general (atleast I didn't see anyone with a quick re read) so there is no need to reopen the discussion. If someone wants to, they may ofcourse come out now and tell us what they think. :) -- (talk) 19:30, 28 December 2006 (CST) :::::::http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki?title=Talk%3AGuildWars_Visions&diff=507072&oldid=506579 < last paragraph. --- Barek (talk • ) - 19:38, 28 December 2006 (CST) ::::::::My bad. :) Let's reopen the discussion then. ::::::::if it isn't clear allrady: I accept these articles, but I have no reason to defend them either. Some people might find great tools if we 'promote' them in the wiki, so why not? -- (talk) 19:41, 28 December 2006 (CST) Agreed, the list can be useful... just have to keep en eye on it for links to problem programs =) and LJ FTW --Midnight08 19:52, 28 December 2006 (CST)